tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post8114013059340984411..comments2024-03-17T10:09:07.770-07:00Comments on Grow Wings -- the Journal of Laini Taylor: To discriminate or not to discriminate?Laini Taylorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14064837312936707024noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-11657219617254005722008-10-27T11:02:00.000-07:002008-10-27T11:02:00.000-07:00hwalk, thank you for your comments and for standin...hwalk, thank you for your comments and for standing up for what you believe!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-20283836470989726922008-10-25T13:32:00.000-07:002008-10-25T13:32:00.000-07:00i am not religious. i don't view marriage as a...i am not religious. i don't view marriage as anything to do with religion. it is about love, and choosing life partners. just because the gay population is in the minority does not make them WRONG or DEVIANT. even if many in the majority would like to think so.<BR/><BR/>marriage also is NOT about having children. i know plenty of straight couples who choose not to have kids. or cannot have kids. if it's about having kids to you, or being man and woman, that's fine. but don't let your own perception of what marriage SHOULD be prevent someone else from this right.<BR/><BR/>to me, marriage is not about "morals" imposed on others. it's about love, commitment and rights. and i fully support my LGBT friends. <3cindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175698109176599954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-2563110294599264812008-10-25T11:29:00.000-07:002008-10-25T11:29:00.000-07:00I prayed to JESUS about this issue. Here's what he...I prayed to JESUS about this issue. <A HREF="http://www.JesusSaysNoOn8.com/" REL="nofollow">Here's what he told me!</A>Reuvenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10419471860957530839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-84795712856408631182008-10-25T10:34:00.000-07:002008-10-25T10:34:00.000-07:00I'm envious of Tone, who gets to live in a country...I'm envious of Tone, who gets to live in a country where more Christians act like well, real Christians, where we instead get Sarah Palin, who refused to call people who bomb abortion clinics, and kill people in the process,<BR/> domestic terrorists. <BR/><BR/>I know a gay family whose parents have been together two decades, through cancer and all sorts of challenges, and then went on to take in their nieces who were being abused by their legally wed parents. The idea that this gay couple who so clearly honor and sacrifice for each other and their nieces should not be able to marry, while the nieces' abusive parents can so freely, is abhorrent and simply unacceptable. One thing I know for sure, if I ever have children and something happened to me, I'll take a great gay couple to raise them any day of the week over having them be forced to live with Hwalk and her crowd.<BR/>AlexandraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-14666763686849856302008-10-25T04:11:00.000-07:002008-10-25T04:11:00.000-07:00And Laini, I would write that post on being libera...And Laini, I would write that post on being liberal and conservative, but for you, my position in Norway would not shed much light on the matter. Here's a quick why, and I apologize for the aside: Instead of two parties (to speak of), we have seven big parties and several small ones, and they mostly form coalition governments. <BR/><BR/>Your democrats share many of the same opinions as our moderate right wing. We really only have one party that would correspond to the republicans in terms of right and left (though not really, since religion does not play a big role for them): Frp. Frp is considered a party for those who think more about themselves than about others, and none of the other parties will go into a coalition with Frp. I'm sorry, but it's true. <BR/><BR/>We do have a Christian party. But they (and right they are) want to spend much more money on public goods and safety nets than your democrats, since they believe it is Christian to take care of people who need it.tone almhjellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05213144552658031984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-77416643363890806632008-10-25T03:49:00.000-07:002008-10-25T03:49:00.000-07:00To voice different opinions, to disagree and to se...To voice different opinions, to disagree and to seek to convince the other part has nothing to do with discrimination.<BR/><BR/>Being denied the right to marry has everything to do with discrimination.<BR/><BR/>I understand that those of you who don't agree with Laini (or me) on this issue feel that Laini's blog is not the perfect environment to voice your views. She retorts, she cuts your arguments to pieces. And though this might make you feel bad, you must remember this: A personal blog is something quite different from a newspaper or any other public medium. This is Laini's sphere of thoughts, dreams and frustrations. We, her visitors, are just that: visitors. When she invites us to comment on a post like this, we must do that as honestly as possible bearing in mind that we are visitors. Sneering, whining, smirking is not only bad argumentation - it's plain rude.<BR/><BR/>But this is a difficult topic. Both camps feel that the right of it is crystal clear. I can never agree with the other side that being gay is something wrong or filthy. They can probably never agree with me that being gay is just like being heterosexual, a highly personal matter that we have no business agitating against or legislating on.<BR/><BR/>Knowing this, I think it's kind and brave of Laini to invite us to share thoughts. She really is a very cool person. Thanks, Laini.tone almhjellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05213144552658031984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-10772885078449742802008-10-25T02:02:00.000-07:002008-10-25T02:02:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Wyman Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246828004909260940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-58022887327144075472008-10-24T22:15:00.000-07:002008-10-24T22:15:00.000-07:00I keep coming back to read this post and all the c...I keep coming back to read this post and all the comments people have left here, and I have to add my voice too. <BR/><BR/>Next year I'm getting married to a man I adore, one who stands by me through hard times and makes me laugh out loud every day. No one questions our love or the merging of our lives. Not only will we share the rights that come with marriage, but we'll shoulder responsibility for each other as well. One day next summer we'll make promises to each other and society will accept those promises. Our community will wish us the best and celebrate with us. <BR/><BR/>This is marriage: two people fall in love and want to spend the rest of their lives together. Marriage is both a contract and a promise to do that. I wish that for any two people who love each other. <BR/><BR/>It breaks my heart that a whole segment of society is denied the opportunity to make the same promise. It angers me that there are people who would ensure they never get the chance to fulfill that promise. <BR/><BR/>I also know that if someone is truly vested in their belief that homosexuality is immoral there's no amount of reasoning that can change their mind. And that's okay; to each his own. It's just that their focus on other people's private lives is kind of, well, unseemly. They're putting an awful lot of mind time into things that aren't any of their business. <BR/><BR/>I'm voting no on 8 because it's what my conscience tells me is right and compassionate.Deirdrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01111665177473414894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-10649028291487419962008-10-24T20:10:00.000-07:002008-10-24T20:10:00.000-07:00Thank you for being courteous Laini. I am a mormo...Thank you for being courteous Laini. I am a mormon and I agree with hwalk wholeheartedly. I read your blog nearly every day even though I do not agree with your political views. I am glad that you have kept the discussions polite and that you allow people with opposite views to express them. Also the frivolity ratio helps:). My gratitude for frivolity has multiplied in this world of political elections and heated discussions. Yet the time has come to take a stand. <BR/><BR/>I believe in God. I believe He is the creator of all things. I believe that He created men and women for a purpose. We were sent to this earth to learn to follow Him. He has given us guidelines through his scriptures and when we follow them we find true happiness in this life and in the world to come. Joy beyond measure and peace that is true and lasting. <BR/><BR/>When I think of love I think of marriage between a man and a woman. A mother and a father who love each other and honor their marital vows. A man and a woman and their children. That is what our society has been based on for over two hundred years. I fear that a change in this basic moral doctrine will not only weaken America, but ultimately help to destroy it.<BR/><BR/>That is why I would vote yes on both prop-8 and prop-102 if I could.<BR/><BR/>Sorry if this has been terribly long. Thank you for your time. <BR/><BR/>JaneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-58604718653844392492008-10-24T20:05:00.000-07:002008-10-24T20:05:00.000-07:00Laini,P.S. After you read it, if you'd rather pos...Laini,<BR/>P.S. After you read it, if you'd rather post reactions on my personal blog (http://jacobandalysa.blogspot.com) than here, it might be a better forum, just because there aren't already 30 comments. Either way. :)Alysa Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03705870547401762370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-49128109853200428842008-10-24T18:14:00.000-07:002008-10-24T18:14:00.000-07:00Well, that's just great...now I'm an indoctrinated...Well, that's just great...now I'm an indoctrinated fool AND a poor speller. It's just not my day.Aftonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01241351509996548332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-22926873165730719732008-10-24T18:02:00.000-07:002008-10-24T18:02:00.000-07:00I feel like I need to say something, but am hesita...I feel like I need to say something, but am hesitant because my beliefs are clearly in the minority in this discussion. It seems like the cry of "discrimination" is a little hypocritcal, however, because there is a lot going on in this discussion: namely, the discrimination of people who don't believe the way you do. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure there will be a well thought-out rebuttle of my comment but it seems that by choosing one side you are discriminating against the other. <BR/><BR/>Why is it ok to discriminate against people of religious faith but out of the question to discriminate against anyone else. (Except the Taliban, of course. They suck. And the KKK. We should definitely discriminate against the KKK.)Aftonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01241351509996548332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-32553442091627555532008-10-24T17:40:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:40:00.000-07:00Laini,THANK YOU FOR BEING AN ALLY. Thank you for b...Laini,<BR/>THANK YOU FOR BEING AN ALLY. Thank you for being a person aligned with a just world. You didn't have to write this post. Many people who are in positions given priviledge in a heterosexist culture know they don't have to speak up. Thank you for your creativity, humor, logic, wit, heart and the whole grab bag in the range of truth that allows people to be appreciated and be different. We can seek to understand and that does not mean we must agree. <BR/><BR/>As a biracial (black/white) lesbian rasied by a single mother who will be the first person to graduate from college, this election means exponentially more to me than any I can imagine and millions of other young maginalized people will be severly affected by its outcome.<BR/><BR/>I have loved your blog for some time and always thought you seemed a sparklerific classy lady but the way you have spoken out recently is particularly impressive and the dream of a civicly evolving country.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if I'm making sense but..just, thanks for being you & thanks for respecting and appreciating my rights to be me, too. You were already my YA s/hero but now you're an adored ally.<BR/><BR/>Peace and sparkles, MartineJ.M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16877241577319477465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-88293637152410852072008-10-24T17:36:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:36:00.000-07:00From a leader in The Church of Jesus Christ of Lat...From a leader in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Elder Dallin H. Oaks:<BR/><BR/>“We should note that the words homosexual, lesbian, and gay are adjectives to describe particular thoughts, feelings, or behaviors. We should refrain from using these words as nouns to identify particular conditions or specific persons. Our religious doctrine dictates this usage. It is wrong to use these words to denote a condition, because this implies that a person is consigned by birth to a circumstance in which he or she has no choice in respect to the critically important matter of sexual behavior.<BR/><BR/>Feelings are another matter. Some kinds of feelings seem to be inborn. Others are traceable to mortal experiences. Still other feelings seem to be acquired from a complex interaction of “nature and nurture.” All of us have some feelings we did not choose, but the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us that we still have the power to resist and reform our feelings (as needed) and to assure that they do not lead us to entertain inappropriate thoughts or to engage in sinful behavior.<BR/><BR/>Different persons have different physical characteristics and different susceptibilities to the various physical and emotional pressures we may encounter in our childhood and adult environments. We did not choose these personal susceptibilities either, but we do choose and will be accountable for the attitudes, priorities, behavior, and “lifestyle” we engraft upon them.”<BR/><BR/>Ensign, March 1996Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-62666580697694739382008-10-24T17:33:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:33:00.000-07:00hi charlotte,I don't actually know what rights are...hi charlotte,<BR/>I don't actually know what rights are or aren't afforded by each; it's a good question. I was mainly addressing this particular blogger who asserted she wasn't discriminating because she DID support civil unions and hence "equal rights" (but not marriage).<BR/><BR/>Alysa, :-)Laini Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14064837312936707024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-16979818629068659612008-10-24T17:27:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:27:00.000-07:00Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm sorry to see frie...Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm sorry to see friends disagree on issues I feel strongly about, too. Anyway, I don't expect you to change your position, but rather wondered what some of your thoughts after reading this piece would be. Cheers!Alysa Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03705870547401762370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-12063708346877123812008-10-24T17:26:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:26:00.000-07:00Hi Laini,viz the "if they have civil unions, why d...Hi Laini,<BR/><BR/>viz the "if they have civil unions, why do they need marriage too"-- does a civil union carry the same legal weight as a marriage? I have friends who got married in Massachusetts, but here in Rhode Island, one is not entitled to the benefits afforded to all other spouses because that takes a marriage that RI recognizes...<BR/><BR/>So (here in RI at least) there is pretty big and important practical reason to want gay marriage to be like any other...<BR/><BR/>What I don't understand at all is why there are people who think that this will somehow hurt them...Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11835101886202235868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-57638990650926136472008-10-24T17:24:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:24:00.000-07:00hwalk,Like you, I am heterosexual and lazy. I cou...hwalk,<BR/><BR/>Like you, I am heterosexual and lazy. I could probably do something about my laziness, but if someone were to tell me tomorrow that my heterosexuality was immoral, there is nothing I would be able to do. I can't change that. It's not merely a tendency, it's who I am.<BR/><BR/>I'm also not clear on why you think heterosexuality needs protecting. Child-producing marriages between men and women will continue to be available to anyone who wants them. After this election is over, you and I will still be able to enjoy our happy marriages. I will be just as happy with my family if 8 is defeated as I am today. Come on, we lazy people need to stick together. Are you with me on this?<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-23437763353962433392008-10-24T17:22:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:22:00.000-07:00Alysa, I'm so sorry to hear this of you. I'll look...Alysa, I'm so sorry to hear this of you. I'll look at the link when I have a little more time.<BR/>:-(Laini Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14064837312936707024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-53620219666483488322008-10-24T17:12:00.000-07:002008-10-24T17:12:00.000-07:00Laini,As someone who would vote yes on 8 if I live...Laini,<BR/>As someone who would vote yes on 8 if I lived in CA, I am interested in your thoughts on the following Defense of Traditional Marriage written by a friend and former neighbor of mine. <BR/><BR/>http://dandafamily.blogspot.com/2008/10/defense-of-traditional-marriage.htmlAlysa Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03705870547401762370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-29360363451969257942008-10-24T16:44:00.000-07:002008-10-24T16:44:00.000-07:00Lizdee, I'm going to leave your comment up because...Lizdee, I'm going to leave your comment up because I think we all need reminders that people like you are out there, not just in, say, the ranks of the Taliban, but here in our own country. Please do not come back. Your hateful bigotry is not welcome here.Laini Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14064837312936707024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-70088236883247219962008-10-24T16:36:00.000-07:002008-10-24T16:36:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lizdeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14633136877337138408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-14662934369555532012008-10-24T16:15:00.000-07:002008-10-24T16:15:00.000-07:00"And Lizdee, you must, then, be opposed to adoptio..."And Lizdee, you must, then, be opposed to adoption and fertility treatments, because clearly if a woman is biologically unable to conceive a child, God doesn't want her to have one?"<BR/><BR/>Sha-ZAM! :) Right on, Laini!Stephanie Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327218987542530574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-38375310189975866782008-10-24T15:38:00.000-07:002008-10-24T15:38:00.000-07:00I just don't understand how the government has any...I just don't understand how the government has any right to tell the American people whom we can or cannot love and / or marry.<BR/><BR/>This country frankly scares me a lot of the time.<BR/><BR/>This religious hatred and their wish to live ina protected Christianity bubble where they only have to see people who look and think like them is frightening.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this post Laini! I cannot even begin to tell you how much I have ranted about this.. ( amongst other things!) <BR/><BR/>I am soooo glad that Camille thinks of gay love and marriage as totally natural! yay! There may be hope for her generation at least! :)<BR/><BR/>Keep up your feisty nature! LOVE IT!!!<BR/><BR/>~JenniferAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21997604.post-70913813908587926282008-10-24T15:04:00.000-07:002008-10-24T15:04:00.000-07:00Hwalk, thanks for your comments. I see you are dee...Hwalk, thanks for your comments. I see you are deeply indoctrinated in a worldview of intolerance, and you feel good about yourself for it. It makes me sad when people who don't sound evil or cruel embrace intolerance with a smile and a chest thump of moral rectitude. Your beliefs aren't "trivial" to me; they are disheartening.<BR/><BR/>And Lizdee, you must, then, be opposed to adoption and fertility treatments, because clearly if a woman is biologically unable to conceive a child, God doesn't want her to have one?<BR/><BR/>Some gay couples are co-raising their own biological children from previous hetero relationships; others adopt, just like hetero couples; still others take advantage of the same fertility "technology" as hetero couples. What's your point? Since when is physiology the fundament of morality and liberty?Laini Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14064837312936707024noreply@blogger.com